And Schulman shares her thoughts on contemporary L.G.B.T.Q. But we also ended up discussing Israel and Palestine, a topic she has written widely about. We began this conversation discussing ACT UP, conflict and Schulman’s theory of political change.

Schulman calls the book “a political history,” but it’s also a work of political theory: a proposal for how social movements can become more effective by embracing dissensus rather than striving for consensus. But it’s also about conflict among people who generally agree with one another and are working toward a common goal. government, and between queer people and a widely homophobic society. It’s a book about necessary conflicts: between the AIDS community and the U.S. Schulman’s latest book, “Let the Record Show,” is a history of ACT UP New York, the direct-action group that reshaped AIDS activism in the late ’80s and early ’90s. It’s a challenging and prescient book, with a deep faith in the healing power of not just communication, but of collision.

And more individually, people often don’t see when they have power, and they often fear or dodge the work of repair. But powerful groups often use their perceived victimhood as an excuse to harm those who are more vulnerable. Viewing oneself as a victim can be one way to earn compassion. This was true in Schulman’s 2016 book, “Conflict Is Not Abuse,” which argues that people often mislabel conflict as abuse without recognizing the power that they have to potentially abuse others. Schulman, far from running from it, believes we need more of it. Sarah Schulman’s work - as a nonfiction writer, novelist, activist, playwright and filmmaker - confronts the very thing most people try to avoid: conflict.

Empathy by Sarah Schulman